Your Trans Student Office Yuna Kaye interviews Patti Baston about life in the queer community in Manchester
Your Trans Student Office Yuna Kaye interviews Patti Baston about life in the queer community in Manchester...
First question is the hardest, tell us a bit about yourself.
My name is Patti Baston, I’m 32 years old, I’m a makeup artist, I guess a makeup artist and photographer, a stylist – although I’m not sure how good I am at that, and a… hmm, how can I put this? I should have a rehearsed statement about it – and a feminisation expert! Technically I am still a freelance makeup artist, but I focus most of my time on my WowGals business.
What drew you to becoming a makeup artist?
I’ve always loved makeup, since I was a little kid, I was always fascinated by not just makeup, really, but by the art of transformation. I was obsessed with Mrs Doubtfire as a kid. I didn’t understand why I was so fascinated by it, but the whole process of doing the makeup, and the feminisation, and the glam of it all.
Why did you start WowGals?
I remember, a very good friend of mine said to me, “If only you could find a way to combine makeup and helping people and therapy”. And simultaneously someone had said to me, “Have you ever thought of doing a dressing service?”. Because at the time I was the makeup artist that everyone would go to when it was like, “I’ve got a trans client, could you help them out, I’ve got someone who’s a crossdresser, could you help them out”.
So I noticed, back in 2022, you had a podcast. Could you tell us a little about that?
Is that Dating the Dolls? Yeah, so the premise of it was, well, is, a podcast about dating as a trans person. And my first series – I’m not gonna say only, because I would like to go back to it at some point – we did 10 episodes, and I only spoke to transfemme people, which was somewhat intentionally, because I am a transfemme person, and I wanted to explore that, and at the time I was single and dating. I wanted to create another little piece of media, that was highlighting positive conversations about trans people, through the eyes of trans people being in love. And so yes, that’s what I did. I had a bunch of conversations with my friends about their dating experiences, through the eyes of a trans person. So you’ve just moved into a new studio in Islington Mill, just down the road from Salford University.
So you’ve just moved into a new studio in Islington Mill, just down the road from Salford University. Why did you choose Islington Mill?
I just thought Islington Mill would be the perfect place, because I’m surrounded by queerness, and everyone’s open. I couldn’t imagine bringing my clients to some sort of grotty, horrible mill in the middle of nowhere, that is full of people who don’t understand the sensitivity of what I do. I’d say 80% of my clients are incredibly, deeply in the closet, and really nervous about visiting a service like mine, so I needed to be somewhere where people understand that and respect that. .
Do you feel that being trans has shaped how you do makeup, and your understanding of it?
I love that question, I’ve never been asked that before… I don’t know! I’m gonna say yeah, probably. I’m 32 now, but I kind of realised my gender at 28. But I’ve been doing makeup since I was 16, and I’ve always looked at makeup from the perspective of glamour, and wanting to make people look and feel like the most feminine, beautiful versions of themselves. I always look back to my earlier career, and my gravity towards working with trans people. I always wanted to help trans people feel more beautiful and more feminine, and I kind of looked through everything in this light. I think, technically, I look at makeup in a slightly different way to other artists, in that I’ve never been very trend-led with makeup, and how I do makeup. It’s interesting to me, because how I do makeup hasn’t really changed much. I don’t think I look at makeup as a form of creativity, but more of a technical mindset, rather than a, I want to do all the colours, and everything. More of a how can I achieve this thing?
What does it mean to you to be part of the Trans+ community?
Through what I do, I’m helping people to visualise – I’m talking about transfemme people, because that’s who I work with – a version of femininity that for a lot of people, they never thought they would be able to achieve. I think that’s powerful. I talk a lot about masculinity and femininity, obviously, but I think that gender stereotypes on either end of the scale, and trying to live up to those stereotypes, put a lot of pressure on us, a lot. For anyone, cis or trans, it’s hard, but especially for a trans person. There’s a huge percentage of my clients who outwardly look like a cisgender man. There are some people who are, and they just enjoy being feminine at times, but for a lot of them, it’s not as simple as just a cis guy who likes to dress up as a woman. It’s more about freeing yourself from these oppressive ideas and stereotypes of femininity and masculinity. And I think my role within the Trans+ community is enabling that. I think everybody who has levels of gender dysphoria should be able to live out in the public and speak about it freely, but a lot of people just can’t, because it will radically change their lives, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with those people wanting to just do that? So to bring it back to what you asked, I think that’s my role within the Trans+ community.
How have you seen the Trans+ community evolve while you’ve been a part of it?
I’ve been officially a trans woman for about 4 years, but I’ve been involved with the Trans+ community en masse for a lot longer than that. It’s changed in ways, I think that from my perspective, it used to be it was all very alcohol, and drink, and drugs, and afterparties. For 10 years, that was my experience of the Trans+ community, really. I think now, thankfully, there are more community-led initiatives, and there’s funding for stuff, and so there are a lot more sober spaces, which I think is important. I do however think that there’s not enough in Manchester. You see some of these events pop up, and I’ve been to them, and there’s just 4 people, but this city’s massive, and there’s quite a decent portion of trans people here. I don’t know why there isn’t more stuff, or why the stuff that happens doesn’t attract more people, why that is.
This might be an interesting question to follow on from what you’ve just said, but… why do you think Manchester has become the hub for queer people that it has?
That is interesting, because it is, isn’t it? And it is a hub for transness as well, but why are there so few events? Again, maybe it’s just what I see or what I don’t see. Would you agree or disagree with me about that?
I (Yuna) would agree to an extent. The hardest thing is, I think there’s quite a lot out there, but it’s not advertised well, it’s hard to find, and still far too much of it surrounds Canal Street and alcohol and stuff, which is so hard to move away from. It’s sad.
Do you know what, I think I agree with you there, actually, because I do see things, and I go, why have I not heard about this before? And I tell people about things, and so many of them have literally never heard of it before.
What can allies do better to support our community?
I think the work is done more on the front line, and between friends, that’s the most important thing. What I mean by that is, if there are microaggressions happening, it’s about speaking up and being like, “Hey I don’t think that’s cool”. It’s nice to share things on social media, but the thing that makes a big difference is having those conversations with your friends and challenging people. Activism happens on the front line, and it’s about having difficult conversations with each other in person.
What is your favourite fact from queer history?
The overarching thing is that queer people have always existed, and actually have been even queerer than ever, in the past. That in itself is a really interesting fact, because a lot of people don’t think about stuff like that, about how if you go back into history in different parts of the world, we were worshipped as deities. And things like hijras, who were part of Indian culture, the trans women who – from my loose understanding of it – would come and perform at weddings and stuff like that? I used to work with an Afghani woman, who spoke really fondly of the hijras back home, who would always be there, part of the celebrations. All these trans people, a part of their culture that has been going for centuries, and probably millennia! I think that stuff is so cool. I haven’t got a specific fact, unfortunately, but I think just the fact that we’ve always been very gay!
Ok, last question. Tell us something that made you smile recently...
Just people! I just love people! I also hate people sometimes, but I love people, having genuine interactions with people. Genuine conversations with people who are happy and nice. What a lovely little question!